Seduced

"SEDUCED"

DANISH TV CONTROVERSIAL DOCUMENTARY ON SAI BABA ON

Regardless of the fact that the Sathya Sai Organization did everything in its power,
even through the judiciary, to prevent producer Øjvind Kyrø of DR (Denmark Radio),
from broadcasting a critical TV documentary on Sai Baba, it was aired on
Wednesday, January 30, 2002 at 8:05 pm.

English translation of the full spoken text by Robert Priddy

1 00:01:57:00 - 00:01:58:00 The next programme will be sent with TTV text.

2 00:02:14:00 00:02:18:07 An Indian guru is winning millions of followers around the world.

3 00:02:18:10 00:02:23:20 They watch him perform miracles, like a god. He himself says that he is God.

4 00:02:23:23 00:02:28:16 A god who can raise the dead and cure cancer.

5 00:02:28:19 00:02:32:06 There are many among his visitors who are themselves idols.

6 00:02:32:09 00:02:35:12 The actress Goldie Hawn and Steven Segal of Hollywood -

7 00:02:35:15 00:02:42:10 England’s Duchess of York 'Fergie' and the millionaire Isaac Tigrett, who started the international chain of Hard Rock Cafes are examples.

8 00:02:42:13 00:02:46:01 The movement is expanding in Denmark.

9 00:02:46:04 00:02:52:21 The businessman Jørgen Trygved, former Superfos manager, and the actress Margrete Koyto are among the well-known followers.

10 00:02:52:24 00:02:59:08 But hundreds of other Danes travel to India annually to experience the guru. They shine in anticipation.

11 00:02:59:11 00:03:03:01 (EMIL JACOBSEN) I have heard a lot of good about him. It’s simply, well... it is the greatest thing.

12 00:03:04:04 00:03:06:13 His name is Sai Baba -

13 00:03:06:16 00:03:12:22 A five foot man whose influence is enormous, both politically and economically.

14 00:03:13:00 00:03:19:24 He surrounds himself with top politicians, here India’s Prime Minister. He has his own airport and private hospitals

15 - paid for by disciples’ donations. The money also comes from Denmark -

16 00:03:24:16 00:03:29:11 Where Sai Baba is officially accepted as a religious community.

17 00:03:32:23 00:03:36:13 National Danish Television followed a group of Danish followers to India to the town

18 00:03:36:16 00:03:40:22 where thousands gather to worship Sai Baba.

19 00:03:41:00 00:03:45:09 In this programme we shall look closely into the guru and the organisation behind him.

20 00:03:45:12 00:03:50:08 Behind the fine façade and all the so-called miracles, there are serious allegations.

(Sanal Edamaruku) Sai Baba is a charlatan. He is an exploiter. He is a cheat.

21 00:03:58:01 00:04:04:13 DR has spoken to previous followers who have been leaders for many years and were at the top of Sai Baba’s organisation.

22 00:04:04:16 00:04:08:09 They tell of swindle and of sexual molestation of young disciples.

(CONNY LARSSON) Sai Baba has been a personal catastrope for me. He has violated me both physically and psychically.

(Title of film is shown on screen) "FORFØRT" (SEDUCIDO)

23 00:04:41:13 00:04:48:07 Arresødal castle in North Sjaelland has just been bought up by the Sai Baba movement for over 15 million kroner. (TRANS. ’over £1½ million)

24 00:04:48:10 00:04:52:12 The movement will transform the castle into a high school.

25 00:04:52:15 00:04:57:10 - as a religious community recognised by the state, financial donations to Sai Baba are tax exempt.

00:04:57:13 00:05:02:16 So Danish taxpayers are also helping to pay for the worldwide organisation.

27 00:05:02:19 00:05:08:01 (HELGE FRIIS, THE MAYOR):-They have taken over one of the most valuable properties in the town.

28 00:05:08:04 00:05:11:09 'Valuable' in the human connotation.

29 00:05:11:12 00:05:15:24 The founder of the town lived in the house.

30 00:05:16:02 00:05:20:06 When first they appeared, I did not know who they were.

31 00:05:20:09 00:05:25:21 They wanted to buy the property under cover of starting a high school.

32 00:05:25:24 00:05:31:10 They do not honestly tell much about who they are... only that they have no connection with Tvind, a company accused of swindling with public funds.

33 00:05:31:13 00:05:39:12 Only at the end of the meeting was I given a book, on the back cover of which was a picture of Sai Baba.

34 00:05:44:03 00:05:50:08 (LIDVIN VIRKESDAL, travel leader) And welcome to our travel meeting.

35 00:05:50:11 00:05:55:18 At Næstved, a group of Danes are preparing their journey to Sai Baba’s headquarters in India. Price D.Kr. 10,000. It is 14 days before departure.

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL, travel leader) You can joyfully anticipate it. This is the first trip to India for some of you. Others have been there two, three, four, five or however many times I don’t know. This is my trip number 50.”

Many followers regard Baba as God.

37 00:06:11:16 00:06:17:06 Because of this program’s compromising statements about Baba, some of the followers have withdrawn from it.

38 00:06:17:09 00:06:22:22 Therefore some of the pictures are masked, but not all of them.

39 00:06:23:00 00:06:27:18 (A BOY, EMIL) Will we meet Sai Baba? Will he see us?

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) Oh, you can bet he will see you. He says that you sit here and believe that I am not aware of your presence. But he is – totally. If you only knew what I have experienced during my 49 visits down there! I have taken people with cancer to interviews, who have become healthy. I have had people with me who have been blind, who got back their sight on the spot.”

40 00:07:05:01 00:07:11:15 The tour leader, the Norwegian Lidvin Virkesdal, lives from taking Danes down to Sai Baba.

41 00:07:11:18 00:07:17:08 He claims that the guru cured him of cancer -

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) and I knew from that day onwards that I was completely healthy. I always say that there is no one who travels down there who comes home as the same person.

42 00:07:33:06 00:07:37:06 (Hostess) How many are you? Twenty-six. It’ll be exciting.

43 00:07:37:09 00:07:39:15 Are you scared of flying?

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) Never, for the simple reason that Baba is with us on our trip in any case. The reason for this has to do with a twin-engined Boeing 737 in 1997 in South America. It lost power in one motor, and a Boeing 737 can fly with one motor left. The problem was that the other motor also stopped, and then it goes only one way, down. But one of the stewardesses was a Sai Baba devotee and she called on him. Just after that they could see Sai Baba in the clouds beyond the wing of the airplane. The first motor then started, and then the other, and Baba was with the plane in the clouds for 20 minutes. Everyone saw it. There is Baba in the clouds. (shows picture)

44 00:08:51:22 00:08:54:24 We are in the South Indian town, Puttaparthi,

45 00:08:55:02 00:08:59:22 which is the headquarters of Sai Baba and his movement.

46 00:09:06:17 00:09:12:24 Puttaparthi was once a little village. Now there are always 10 to 20 thousand disciples here.

At special festivals, over a million followers gather in the town. (Trans. Note Completely wrong figure. Max. 300,000 capacity)

48 00:09:28:02 00:09:35:01 The disciples fill the streets twice daily when they come out of the temple area, the so-called ashram.

49 00:09:35:04 00:09:42:03 Men disciples have to be clothed in white and the women must cover their shoulders and legs.

50 00:09:53:05 00:09:59:21 Everything here in Puttaparthi is about Sai Baba and his various messages of love, peace and understanding.

51 00:09:59:24 00:10:06:11 The tourist industry flourishes in the streets. There are shops filled with masses of souvenirs.

52 00:10:06:14 00:10:11:01 One can, for example, buy a cd on which the guru himself sings.

53 00:10:17:00 00:10:22:01 The dots here mark Sai Baba organisation centres, found around most of the world.

54 00:10:22:04 00:10:27:02 It is thought that there are 30 millions followers. (Translator - not more than ca. 3 million, most probably)

55 00:10:29:23 00:10:36:05 From followers’ financial donations, Sai Baba has accumulated goods amounting to and estimated more than 15 billion Danish kroner.

56 00:10:36:08 00:10:39:17 Among other things, he has built this private hospital.

57 00:10:39:20 00:10:43:00 The hospital was recently inaugurated by India’s Prime Minister -

58 00:10:43:03 00:10:47:03 And is held up by followers as an example of Sai Baba’s good works.

59 00:10:47:06 00:10:53:14 Within it no one is left in doubt as to who to thank for the treatment.

60 00:11:01:18 00:11:05:20 Sai Baba erected another hospital before this one with expensive equipment

61 00:11:05:23 00:11:10:15 - for transplants and heart operations.

62 00:11:11:18 00:11:16:22 He also has his own airport with regular flights to Bombay, India’s largest city.

63 00:11:17:00 00:11:24:05 Here is a planetarium, a music school, high schools and higher colleges, primarily for boys and young men.

64 The ashram lies below the guru’s museum -

65 00:11:31:24 00:11:36:20 - the temple, where Sai Baba lives and appears for his followers.

66 Sai Baba does the miracles that prove his divinity inside the temple.

67 00:11:45:23 00:11:51:03 Out of his hands come watches, jewellry and holy ash, so-called ’vibhuti’

68 00:11:51:06 00:11:57:05 - which he claims cures disciples of mortal illnesses.

69 00:11:59:24 00:12:04:06 Followers have written their deepest wishes in letters

70 00:12:04:09 00:12:09:23 which they hope that Sai Baba will receive and fulfil their wishes.

71 00:12:12:15 00:12:16:11 DR Documentaries would have liked to film these so-called 'miracles'.

72 00:12:16:14 00:12:21:09 But Sai Baba’s press officer, Chakravarthi, denied DR the right to film inside the ashram

73 00:12:21:12 00:12:24:22 -or make other recordings of Sai Baba.

74 00:12:25:00 00:12:30:14 Instead, we have obtained pictures of the guru for this programme through previous and present disciples.

75 00:12:41:00 00:12:45:24 It is 4 o’clock in the morning. The Danes are on their way to the temple compound

76 00:12:46:02 00:12:49:07 to see Sai Baba and experience his miracles.

77 00:12:49:10 00:12:56:19 They got up early to get places. At 4 a.m. it is yet three hours before the guru will show himself.

78 00:13:02:19 00:13:08:21 As said, we would liked to have followed them through the gate, but our camera’s entry was barred here.

79 00:13:09:24 00:13:16:17 Instead, we returned to the gathering in the evening after the Danes had experienced Sai Baba.

80 00:13:16:20 00:13:23:00 (GUNNAR MORITSEN, AN ACCOUNTANT) I have to admit that, emotionally, when he took my letter and said: Please, come forward...

81 00:13:23:03 00:13:27:15 So when I sat down, things simply went up and down in my chest and tears were about to come -

82 00:13:27:18 00:13:35:09 - for it was so powerful, the eye contact I had with him.

83 00:13:35:12 00:13:41:15 But I believe sort of that I have had a whole lot that went up and down, and the connection between my solar plexus and my heart sort of moved that there.

84 00:13:41:18 00:13:44:19 Very definitely a positive experience.

And then letters, two after one another. It is quite fantastic.

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) Yes, it is fantastic. You are very priviliged.

86 00:13:53:08 00:13:57:22 Others tell that they were filled with pleasure when they saw Sai Baba.

87 00:13:58:00 00:14:00:12 and one says, now she has seen God.

88 00:14:09:10 00:14:12:01 (EDEL SAABY – WIDOW and PENSIONER) I have been down here five times.

89 00:14:12:04 00:14:16:02 And the greatest experience, that occurred the second time.

90 00:14:16:05 00:14:19:10 I was lying down after dinner and reading a crime novel.

91 00:14:19:13 00:14:23:17 I put it aside and half-closed my eyes.

92 00:14:23:20 00:14:30:07 Then I saw Sai Baba’s face wavering before me twice.

93 00:14:30:10 00:14:33:11 And he smiled to me.

94 00:14:33:14 00:14:39:05 And I opened my eyes too, to see whether he was still there. He was.

95 00:14:39:08 00:14:47:06 It probably lasted about four seconds or so. It was in fact the greatest experience I have had.

96 00:14:48:10 00:14:53:22 No one in the Danish group questioned Sai Baba while we followed them in India.

97 00:14:54:00 00:14:58:24 Apparently, the only sceptic was the youngest of the group, 12 years old.

98 00:14:59:02 00:15:03:14 (EMIL JACOBSEN, schoolboy)) He did not mean quite as much to me as I had thought when I started out.

99 00:15:03:17 00:15:08:10 Seeing him in reality was no different to seeing a picture of him.

100 00:15:08:13 00:15:12:23 But ten minutes, that is too little. He could well have held a talk.

101 00:15:13:01 00:15:15:21 Said some divine words. Say something or other from some book.

103 00:15:20:16 00:15:25:19 According to Lidvin, he says so many wise things, and I think he could have done something about that.

104 00:15:25:22 00:15:30:14 (COMMENTATOR) In India there are very few who dare to criticise Sai Baba.

105 00:15:30:17 00:15:36:17 One reason for this is the guru’s political influence, which goes right to the top of the political system.

106 00:15:36:20 00:15:42:04 Both the present and previous Prime Ministers are frequent guests at Sai Baba’s ashram.

107 00:15:42:07 00:15:47:08 One of the few Indians who speaks out critically in public is this man.

108 00:15:47:11 00:15:53:16 He is an author and the chairman for a movement of critics of Sai Baba. Sanal Edamaruku, General secretary in India’s Rationalist Association,

(SANAL EDAMARUKU) "SB is a charlatan, a cheat, a scoundrel, preying on the gullibility of the common man. And he is an exploiter class one. From the prime ministers to the presidents to chief justices in our Supreme Court, we have a lot of devotees of SB and his influence is very powerful.

109 00:16:13:07 00:16:16:17 (COMMENTATOR) “He also has influence over the media.

110 00:16:16:20 00:16:22:16 This clips was removed from a State TV programme because it caused doubts about the miracles."

111 00:16:22:19 00:16:25:07 One sees Sai Baba get the chain in his hand

112 00:16:25:10 00:16:29:23 Which he subsequently pretends to materialise.

113 00:16:31:11 00:16:36:18 Danish Radio Documentaries has gone through a number of pieces of footage with a conjurer.

114 00:16:36:21 00:16:41:15 To a professional it is obvious that Sai Baba uses sleight of hand, not miracles.

115 (NILS KRØJGAARD, CONJURER) Here we see Sai Baba come over to one of his assistants and receive the gift he will hand over.

116 00:16:48:17 00:16:52:13 He tries to find the chain, hidden by his right hand,with his left hand.

117 00:16:52:16 00:16:57:01 As soon as he gets hold of it – he drops it across to the right hand

118 - 00:16:57:04 00:17:00:21 and materialises – or as it really is - conjures up the chain.

119 00:17:03:14 00:17:08:18 (COMMENTATOR) Another of Sai Baba’s miracles is when he produces holy ash.

120 00:17:08:21 00:17:12:22 Note Goldie Hawn in the background.

121 00:17:18:20 00:17:21:21 (NILS KRØJGAARD) Before me I have a heap of ash.

122 00:17:21:24 00:17:25:13 The ash is fluffy, insubstantial material.

123 00:17:25:16 00:17:29:21 If you compress the ash, then you can make such tablets.

124 00:17:29:24 00:17:33:22 Such a tablet can be hidden in the hand and one can move the hand

125 00:17:34:00 00:17:37:14 - without losing the tablet.

126 00:17:43:05 00:17:47:17 You see the pill of ash between the fingers.

127 00:17:53:12 00:17:56:14 Here it is crushed.

128 00:18:05:11 00:18:10:17 Sai Baba hides the ash pills in his closed left hand.

129 00:18:10:20 00:18:15:09 He takes a pill over to his right hand.

130 00:18:29:11 00:18:34:09 According to the conjurer, the same occurs here, camouflaged by a handkerchief.

131 00:18:35:16 00:18:40:02 The followers apparently discover nothing.

132 00:18:40:05 00:18:46:08 (NILS KRØJGAARD) They are totally mentally disarmed. They don’t notice his hands.

133 00:18:46:11 00:18:52:17 All they concentrate on is getting a glimpse of Sai Baba, their God.

134 00:18:52:20 00:18:58:10 As a conjurer, one works to distract the watchers’ - the public’s -attention.

135 00:18:58:13 00:19:01:17 Sai Baba does not need that at all.”

136 00:19:12:16 00:19:15:24 The Danish group is on an excursion.

137 00:19:54:06 00:20:01:17 The following morning they shall see miracles. The group has been told that Sai Baba never sleeps and is never ill.
(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) When Baba walks in sand or gravel, in the rain for example, his feet are never dirtied. Never. You never see a videofilm where he is walking in the rain and his feet are dirty.”
"We have here an impression of Baba’s feet, and amrit is seeping from them."

138 00:20:22:00 00:20:28:18 Amrit is the nectar of the gods. Participants are told that this is a Miracle and that the amrit can heal.

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) "When you write a letter to Baba, you should always end it with ‘Always at your lotus feet’."

139 00:20:45:04 00:20:48:21 The lotus feet are at the Thief’s Temple.

140 00:20:51:00 00:20:55:03 It is called the thief’s temple, because it was constructed by this man

141 :20:55:06 00:21:00:03 - who was a thief, until he met Sai Baba, who asked him to build a temple.

142 00:21:02:09 00:21:07:07 They are told that this picture of Sai Baba gets miraculously covered in holy ash every day.

143 00:21:07:10 00:21:13:15 and that the ash falls down when one sings praise to Baba, as a sign of his divine presence .

144 00:21:58:17 00:22:05:01 The travel party later receive ash to take home.

145 00:22:07:13 00:22:15:07 The temple owner takes some amulets and puts them on the followers’ palms. Again the fluid is the so-called amrit.

146 00:22:25:23 00:22:31:23 Some of the followers are convinced that the amrit continues to flow from Sai Baba’s amuletter by some miraculous and inexplicable means.

148 00:22:35:24 00:22:40:24 As with the ash, the travel party takes liquid amrit home in bottles they brought along.

149 00:22:41:02 00:22:46:01 They are told that it can heal illnesses.

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) "He has removed it. He has removed the amulet, but it keeps coming."

150 00:22:52:23 00:22:56:22 (JOURNALIST) "You do not know from where it comes? Is it coming from your own hand, then?"

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) "Don’t ask me.”

151 00:23:00:10 00:23:06:04 (GUNNAR MORITSEN) I had that amulet there put in my hand. Then nectar suddenly began to flow out of it -

152 00:23:06:07 00:23:09:17 - as if it came directly from the amulet.

153 00:23:11:15 00:23:17:18 I don’t know how it happens. It just seems completely strange. A peculiar sense that it simply happens.

154 00:23:17:21 00:23:22:00 It’s something that simply cannot be understood at all, and I certainly don`t.

155 00:23:22:03 00:23:25:18 So it is something of a miracle.

156 00:23:25:21 00:23:32:12 (NILS KRØJGAARD)I have also manufactured my own amrit and likewise have also made some small amulets.

157 00:23:32:15 00:23:36:16 They are made from a spoon. It is oval and has a slight concavity.

158 00:23:36:19 00:23:39:22 That is to say, the amrit can collect in the concavity here.

159 00:23:40:00 00:23:45:19 We shall observe once more how the thief gives the amulets to the followers.

160 00:23:45:22 00:23:50:17 He uses a spoon, which he dips in a jar full of sugar water as we see here.

161 00:23:50:20 00:23:54:07 Everyone who has tried to put sirup on a pancake knows -

162 00:23:54:10 00:23:59:07 how long it takes for the sirup to run from the spoon.

163 00:23:59:10 00:24:02:10 It can keep on sticking there for a relatively long time.

164 00:24:02:13 00:24:06:05 We put it down into the saucer with amrit.

165 00:24:06:08 00:24:10:00 Now I put the amulet in place. Here it is.

166 00:24:10:03 00:24:15:05 And see, when the hand is level, then nothing happens.

167 00:24:15:08 00:24:22:21 But as soon as one begins to slope the hand, the amrit begins to run, as slowly as this from the hand.

168 00:24:22:24 00:24:27:06 It is remarkable for how long the amrit continues to run.

169 00:24:28:21 00:24:33:11 Because the travel group were told that both the amrit and the ash have healing properties,

170 00:24:33:14 00:24:37:22 We had both things analysed by the Danish Veterinary and Food Administration

171 00:24:38:00 00:24:43:09 The amrit consisted in water and sugar. The ash was mostly chalk.

172 00:24:43:12 00:24:46:13 (ERIK DAHM, HEAD OF THE LABORATORY) We do not know with complete certainty whether it is ash. It could be ash.

173 00:24:46:16 00:24:52:07 We have investigated the powder for mineral content.

174 00:24:52:10 00:24:56:16 It contains a number of minerals, primarily calcium, ordinary chalk.

175 00:24:56:19 00:25:01:24 Apart from that, our investigations have been unable to show any extraordinary thing that has special healing properties.

176 00:25:07:02 00:25:10:15 (NILS KRØJGAARD) "Sai Baba does many different miracles."

177 00:25:10:18 00:25:15:00 For example, he often borrows a silver ring from a disciple.

178 00:25:15:03 00:25:21:07 He takes the silver ring and quietly and gently rubs it, and suddenly it is transformed into a gold ring.

179 00:25:21:10 00:25:27:16 This can obviously not be done without both a silver ring and a gold ring. We shall now see this.

180 00:25:29:09 00:25:35:03 Here we see Sai Baba borrow a silver ring from one of his disciples

181 00:25:35:06 00:25:40:00 So that all who are present in the room here can be sure it is a silver ring -

182 00:25:40:03 00:25:42:22 - to make the miracle as great as possible -

183 00:25:43:00 00:25:48:01 Baba now shows the silver ring to his disciples sitting in front of him, so as really to see -

184 00:25:48:04 00:25:51:15 that the ring is made of silver.

185 00:25:51:18 00:25:57:08 In a moment we will see Sai Baba conjuring the ring into a gold one.

186 00:25:57:11 00:26:02:08 Note that, in a moment, his right hand is tightly closed.

187 00:26:02:11 00:26:08:11 One can clearly see that he is hiding a ring in his right hand.

188 00:26:08:14 00:26:14:05 He is just going to be kissed a last time. (TRANSLATOR - This is a comment on a lady who kisses SB’s hand) Then he gets the ring...

189 00:26:14:08 00:26:18:17 There is the hand which is tightly closed. And then he gets the ring. He gets it here.

190 00:26:18:20 00:26:23:18 Note too that the silver ring comes down behind the cushion in the chair.

191 00:26:23:21 00:26:28:24 He blows on the ring and it turns into gold.

192 00:26:29:02 00:26:31:16 As one can see, people believe that it is a miracle.

193 00:26:31:19 00:26:35:18 But it is simple conjuring. Not only that, but he fumbles and so

194 00:26:35:21 00:26:42:19 has materialised or conjured forth a gold ring that that doesn’t fit at all and is a number too small.

(LIDVIN VIRKESDAL) "It was also in the newspapers here at home. Everyone saw it. And here is the picture of it. That is Baba in the clouds."

195 00:26:56:08 00:27:03:20 The picture is regarded by followers as proof that Sai Baba saved the plane. What do two professional photographers say?

196 00:27:03:23 00:27:08:22 (HEINE PEDERSEN - PHOTOGRAPHER)None of this has any value as documentation.

197 00:27:09:00 00:27:12:11 It is an unclear picture of a man with some clouds in the background..

198 00:27:12:14 00:27:18:24 (HENRIK SAXGREN - PHOTOGRAPHER) Photography... everyone constructs each their own story from a photograph.

199 00:27:19:02 00:27:23:10 It is a bit hard to see how it is produced.

200 00:27:23:13 00:27:28:14 but I see that there are two possibilities. The pictures are either superimposed on one another -

201 00:27:28:17 00:27:32:22 - one picture of a man and one picture of some clouds – as we have all done (double exposure) to take one picture on top of another,

202 00:27:33:00 00:27:37:23 or else they are most likely produced in a computer, where one... and it is highly likely that...

203 This can be done very easily in any home computer.

204 00:27:42:14 00:27:45:15 ... put the pictures together, fake them.

205 00:28:09:06 00:28:15:24 But there are much more serious allegations against Sai Baba, accusations of sexual molestation.

206 00:28:16:02 00:28:21:13 The guru is known for daily selecting disciples to take to a so-called interview.

207 00:28:21:16 00:28:24:08 The interviews take place alone in a room with Sai Baba -

208 00:28:24:11 00:28:30:02 - and are regarded as something of the highest one can achieve.

209 00:28:30:05 00:28:35:00 The accusers say that Sai Baba has molested his disciples sexually during these interviews.

210 00:28:35:03 00:28:39:18 It involves young men and boys, including minors.

211 00:28:39:21 00:28:43:24 Sai Baba and his organisation have so far rejected all allegations.

212 00 28:44:02 00:28:49:06 They characterize the allegations as an evil campaign based on second-hand rumours.

213 00:28:49:09 00:28:55:07 Danish Radio has spoken to a number of ex-disciples who have been molested.

("SAM") One time he had his robe almost completely off and he tried to have anal sex with me, because he came from behind me and started climbing up on top of me, you know, and being that I’m so much taller than him, in order to keep prevent it from happening, I just stood straight up and didn’t allow him to do anything, you know, and I kind of kept pushing him away and keep him there until ??... I know, I want to talk to you, I want to be with you and I love you. He said, "You don’t love me? You don’t love me?" And I would say, "No, I love you, but I just don’t want to have sexual relations with you."

214 00:29:32:00 00:29:36:07 The boy and his family were showered with jewels and watches.

215 00:29:36:10 00:29:41:05 The family wishes to remain anonymous because they fear the reactions of Sai Baba`s followers.

216 00:29:41:08 00:29:46:21 Today they live in the US Midwest. The father was one of the leaders in the American Sai movement -

217 00:29:46:24 00:29:53:22 But he broke with the organisation when he discovered the molesting. This is the first time they give their accounts on TV.

("SAM"s father) We were shocked when we heard it and the both of us just embraced our son at that time and we said, "That’s it. It’s over. It’s finished." And the thing that was most impactful there, was that when we said to him, "Why didn’t you tell us?", and he said, "The greatest fear that I had was that my family would choose SB and I would lose my family." And that he had lived with that fear. And he said, "and that I would be responsible for possibly bringing down an organisation as big as this.”

(”SAM”) The first time I had a personal experience with SB was when I was 16 years old. I went to India alone with some friends in a USA group. I think I was the only person in that group that he gave a personal interview to. I went in there, and he motioned for me to lower my pants. And I did. I was very nervous at the time, yeah. And he waved his hand and turned it over and showed me some oil. And he started to rub it on my testicles and started kissing me. And as he was kissing me, he started kissing me deeply, you know. And I started tensing up and, you know, not understanding what was happening. But it seemed to me as if SB was trying to make my penis erect. He had told me not to tell anybody about what he had done, that people wouldn’t understand it.

218 00:31:46:24 oo:31:49:21 (COMMENTATOR) the molestations went on for several years.

(”SAM”) The second time that I went to see SB was in 1997. I went with my whole family and a group of people. I believe we had about 10 people in our group. I don’t remember exactly what happened that first day, but I know that there was physical contact in the personal interview room. I ended up getting about 20 to 21 personal interviews within a month and a half. Then he at one time gave me a watch and I wore it for about a week. And after about the first week of wearing it, the gold started to fade off of the inside and around the sides and I felt it to be kind of strange, because I felt it was like a token of love or a spiritual gift or some sort of a … something special, and it was just already … it was really cheap, I could tell. The second hand was sometimes moving in different directions, and the gold left and so I asked him in an interview, you know, why it was changing colours and he almost got upset with me for asking a question like that, you know. And he told me then, “I’m going to give you a solid gold watch.” And so he made another watch for me. It was solid gold. At the time it looked very gold on the front and the back. And about a week later it was all faded off. It didn’t work very well for very long. But every time we would go back into the personal room, his wants got to be very intimate. And he was constantly having me take out my penis and he would hold it, sometimes put it in his mouth and look at me, and then ask me to do the same thing or push my head down and lift his robe up. And I was gagging and almost about to vomit. And, you know, that was probably the most mentally break down type of thing I’ve ever done in my life, because if I didn’t feel like at that time, like my life or my family’s happiness or … was depending on it, I wouldn’t have done it. But my mentality at that time … I felt like it was a life or almost death situation. You know, this was God in human form, but that was my mental program – this is God in human form. How could I deny him what he was trying to make me do? There must be some deeper reason or deeper meaning that what I see.”

219 00:34:33:13 00:34:37:18 Sai Baba threatened the boy by saying that his family would not get any more interviews -

220 00:34:37:21 00:34:41:10 If he revealed anything to his parents.

(SAM) But there were several occasions that really made it snap in my mind that it was no longer even possibly a spiritual experience. I was constantly feeling the pressures of the thousands and thousands of people outside the room that all wanted to be in the position that I was in, and who every day almost treated me with anger or resent, you know, because I got so much attention from SB. My feeling, however, was, if you guys only knew what was actually going on back there, you wouldn’t even want to be in my shoes, because it’s not very funny.

221 00:35:20:12 00:35:24:04 This family was far from being the only one who can tell of sexual abuse.

222 00:35:24:07 00:35:29:04 The police in USA, Germany and France have received formal charges from ex-disciples.

223 00:35:29:07 00:35:33:12 Twenty reports were deposited with the Indian authorities in March 2001.

224 00:35:33:15 00:35:38:04 The court in India has still not decided how it will deal with the formal charges.

225 00:35:38:07 00:35:45:06 One of the accusers lives in Boston. His mother is a fervent follower of Baba, and he was too for six years.
(JED GEYERHAHN) In 1989 when I was 15 years old I went to India for three weeks. And on that trip I had four interviews. And in the third interview he actually asked me to untie my pants. And he forcibly pulled my pants down and with his bare hand grabbed my groin and rubbed some oil on the side of my scrotum. And I went again on the following year, and on that trip when I was 16 years old, SB called me again for a private interview. At that point I was even actually more uncomfortable because it seemed like this had already taken place, there is no reason why it needed to take place again. But he asked me to take my pants down. I did and he went on and produced an oily substance and rubbed it on the side of my scrotum.

226 00:36:34:10 00:36:38:15 According to Jed Geyerhahn, he is far from being the only one.

(JED GEYERHAHN) I have talked with students at SB’s school and they have had sexual relationships with SB. And it’s really common knowledge that several students stay with SB all night on an ongoing basis. And of course nobody talks about what takes place with these students with SB, but from the students I’ve talked to (it’s) clear that there are sexual relationships taking place. And in fact one student I talked to directly was a person that was staying with SB. And from the conversation it was clear that it was very difficult for him to come forward with this information, because he’d be rejected by his family and by his culture and by his people, unlike American students who have the support of their culture and society and family. They come forward and talk about the fact that they have been mistreated by SB.

(”SAM”) What really helped me was when I had some conversations with some other people who had had similar experienes. Because I felt, that if they had had experiences as intense, or close to as intense as mine, I could talk to them about it more openly than I could talk to my dad. So we had talked about it, and all the people that I had talked about it were equally confused about it as I was. However, also equally brainwashed and allowing it to continue to take place. So I would say that finally I decided that I was not going to put myself into that position again, because life without SB was going to be a better life.”

227 00:38:26:03 00:38:29:06 When his son at last told him what was going on -

228 00:38:29:09 00:38:34:18 - the father broke all connection with Sai Baba and resigned as leader of a part of the movement in America.

(SAM’S FATHER) I could see the manipulation that had been done. The threats, the pressure, the intense responsibility to bring this boy along, to keep him around for seven years as Baba’s plaything.

229 00:38:53:16 00:38:58:13 The father says that he complained to the highest leader in the organisation in the USA.

(SAM’S FATHER) We told him every single detail. And honestly, I would say that he was genuinely shaken. He made comments like, "Faith has to be restored. Words will not be enough. I hate to think that 25 years of my life had been for nothing, had been a waste. We MUST talk to Baba about this." And he asked us, "Please, please, do not tell anyone about this until we’ve had a chance to talk to Baba." He said, "I will go, I will be there for his birthday." He was called in and he specifically adressed the situation with our family. Baba was very clear exactly which family it was. He said, "Baba, I need to talk to you about inappropriate action that this family says you’ve had with their son." Baba’s response was: "Swami is pure." The next day Baba gave his big birthday discourse, and in that discourse he praised this individual, that man who is the head of the organisation, more than he had ever praised anyone else before, saying what an incredible devotee he was, and all that he had done. And a friend of mine who had videotaped it and had it, was approached afterwards by this man. He said, "Oh, did you get that on tape?" He said, "It was the peak of my life." So when he returned and he called me, he said, "I’ve done what I said I would do. I’ve kept my word. I spoke to Baba. Baba’s response is: 'Swami is pure,' and he said that you would return." And he said, "My heart and my mind are on Swami. You have to do whatever you have to do." And I just ... I felt that he just couldn’t face it.

230 00:41:03:04 00:41:06:24 Conny Larsson was a faithful disciple of Sai Baba for 21 years.

231 00:41:07:02 00:41:10:13 For many years, Conny Larsson has run a home for drug users in Sweden.

232 00:41:10:16 00:41:15:13 And he took patients along with him to India many times so that they might be cured by Sai Baba.

233 00:41:15:16 00:41:22:12 At present, Conny Larsson works in southern Poland teaching personel within the social care sector and in prisons.

234 00:41:22:15 00:41:29:17 Previously, he was one of the two top leaders of the Swedish Sai Baba Organisation.

(CONNY LARSSON) It was like this. From when I was four years old until I was eight, I was misused by a pedophile, my dad's best friend and boss. And he raped me every Friday evening, when the pay came. And they’d have drinks and when my dad dropped off, he violated me orally in our toilet. And after that I came to Sai Baba, who I believed to be my God and my saviour, and then I was invited in to the inner interview room. And that was when he pulled my pants down and took out my penis and began to rub it in with oil then began to masturbate me, onani - that is. And after that he would of course want to suck me too. And I stood there quite speechless, and couldn’t quite figure out what was really happening then. What he wanted then was that I should suck him, so he pulled up his smock like this and then he pulled out his small penis – about so large – and thought that I would suck him, but I couldn’t, because I came to think of the violation episode when I was a child, so it was not on. I had a nauseous feeling and, in that way, got Sai Baba to realise that I just couldn’t. And then he dropped it. But he still really wanted to masturbate me.

235 00:42:49:04 00:42:56:16 Conny Larsson believed in Sai Baba as a god and accepted his sexual approaches

236 00:42:56:19 00:43:02:19 He broke away – he was a mature adult at the time - only when he experienced the treatment given by Sai Baba to a Swedish family.

(CONNY LARSSON) It was when we went in June - June, 16 1999 – a group from Gothenburg went down to Sai Baba, and then there was a boy who is listed on this passenger list. And so this boy was lured into the inner interview room while his mother sat outside. And then I heard what occurred, of a sexual nature, in there, because I have myself been behind this 'curtain of shame' as I call it today. And it was so audible that I got embarrassed. And when Baba had gone and the cushion he has a back support that had fallen forward, I took care to replace that cushion - for I was sitting just beside it - like this. And when I was about to put the cushion back, to my great surprise I saw that, in the rear end of the chair and furthest within the seat, lies gold watches, gold necklaces, gold rings, and other bits and pieces, which he later - when the boy had come out – he comes out satisfied and happy, and smacks his lips. And then he sits down and has the impudence directly to confront the mother, who is looking at her boy and wondering what has happened to him, and asks her ”What do you want?” Then he has the nerve to cheat and do a sleight-of-and materialisation, which I saw with my own eyes when he took it with his hand behind his back. And not only rape or seduce the boy in there, but fool the mother and all of us outside that he could manifest things, when everything had been lying behind his cushion. And then, so to speak, then the penny really dropped for me. Just think, my mind said, and then I understood that I have been deceived spiritually and physically, the whole world is fooled spiritually and physically.

237 00:45:08:06 00:45:12:19 What happened to you after you stood forth in opposition to Sai Baba?

(CONNY LARSSON) I was threatened that I would be shot when I should go to Poland. And now one has tried a new tactic, from the Sai movement, and that is to send out messages about me saying I am a convicted pedophile. They have, so to speak, turned around the entire problematic and say that what Sai Baba is guilty of - pedophilia – is what I am guilty of. I and the other guys who have dared to speak out – it is us who are pedophiles. And they have send this announcement out across the globe. And Sai followers believe it.

238 00:45:47:16 00:45:52:02 When the matter came out, many Swedish followers left the movement.

239 00:45:52:05 00:45:55:19 The Danish leaders, however, reject all accusations.

240 00:45:55:22 00:46:01:11 The leader of the Sai Baba organisation in Denmark is Thorbjorn Meyer. He is a lecturer in ethics at the Business High School in Copenhagen.

241 00:46:01:14 00:46:04:23 He is also the boss for Sai Baba in Europe.

(CONNY LARSSON) - speaking about T. Meyer] He is the strongest, most powerful person in the whole of Europe, being the leader in Europe. He knows about everything.

242 00:46:19:13 00:46:23:17 But Thorbjørn Meyer would not participate in this programme.

243 00:46:23:20 00:46:31:00 Thorbjørn Meyer, who is here kneeling for Sai Baba, was invited to see DR’s documentation, but he refused.

244 00:46:33:22 00:46:40:06 Instead, he sent a letter to DR and called the allegations undocumented and untrue.

245 00:46:43:02 00:46:46 22 We also asked the travel leader, Lidvin Virkesdal, to comment on the accusations,

246 00:46:47:00 00:46:51:19 but neither did he wish to contribute to our broadcast on this matter.

247 We were instead referred to Peter Pruzan, a professor at Copenhagen’s Business High School.

248 00:46:56:06 00:47:00:02 He has been a faithful Sai Baba follower for many years.

249 00:47:00:05 00:47:08:04 What is truth? That these people perhaps have had some experiences which they have experienced in their brains, in their minds.

250 00:47:08:07 00:47:13:12 (JOUNALIST) They tell of direct, physical experiences as regards the pedophile interference.

251 00:47:13:15 00:47:18:17 What is the truth? I am not saying that these people are lying -

252 00:47:18:20 00:47:22:15 - that they are not telling what they think they have experienced.

253 00:47:22:18 00:47:26:14 In Jerusalem there are hundreds of people